The interviewee in this article is an expert who has studied hundreds of reincarnation cases, psychologist Jim Tucker from the University of Virginia in the United States.
NPR: When did you first become interested in this topic—when did the idea of reincarnation become mature enough to be a subject of scientific exploration?
Psychologist Jim Tucker: I became interested in it in the late 1990s. But actually, this work had been done at the University of Virginia 50 years prior. Over the decades, now (in 2014) we’ve studied over 2,500 cases of children reporting past-life memories. And what we’re trying to do is determine exactly what the children said, what happened, and whether it matches the life of someone who lived and died before. When I joined, I started focusing on cases in the U.S. And I’ve explained some of those cases in a published book. And there are actually some of the reincarnation cases in the U.S. that are quite convincing.
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NPR: Let’s talk about some of them. You mentioned your recent book, *Return to Life*. You recount the stories of several children in chronological order, including one who captured the attention of the entire United States. That’s the story of James Leininger—a boy who remembers being a fighter pilot in World War II. Could you briefly explain that case to us?
Tuker: James Leininger (born 1998) is the son of a Christian couple in Louisiana. As a child, he loved toy airplanes. But as his second birthday approached, James began having nightmares four to five times a week about a plane crash. Afterward, James talked about the crash all day, saying he used to be a pilot, that he took off from a ship. When his father asked him the name of the ship, James said it was the Natoma. James said he was shot down by the Japanese and died at Iwo Jima, with a friend named Jack Larsen on board. It turned out there was a transport plane named USS Natoma Bay stationed in the Pacific during World War II. It was indeed connected to Iwo Jima. A pilot died there – a young man named James Huston. James Huston’s plane crashed exactly as James Leininger had described: the engine was shot out, exploded in flames, it plunged into the water, and quickly sank. At the time, the pilot of the plane next to it was Jack Larsen.
NPR: How old was James when he made these claims?
Tucker: He’s only two years old.
NPR: That’s amazing.
Tucker: Like most cases, the memory would fade over time as the boy turned 5, 6, or 7, which is normal. But the memory was definitely there at that time, quite strong for a period.
NPR: How do you know that these children haven’t exaggerated what they heard from their parents or made up stories in their imagination when talking about dreams they might have?
Tucker: Certainly, in terms of imagination, if we could never verify whether what the child said matched someone who had died, we could just dismiss it as delusion. But in cases like James’s, the previous life as James Huston is so vague. I mean, he was a pilot who was murdered 50 years earlier, and he was from Pennsylvania, while James was in Louisiana, it seems absolutely impossible that the boy would have gathered this information through normal means as a 2-year-old. The fact is, it took his father years – three or four years to actually track it all down and see that, indeed, everything James said matched the case of the deceased pilot.
The boy James Leininger (right) claims that in his previous life he was pilot James Huston (left).
NPR: Please provide a scientific analysis, because many people will think this is impossible when they hear it.
Tucker: I think it’s very difficult to simply place these cases on a map of understanding of materialistic reality. I mean, if matter is important, if the material world is everything, then I don’t know how you could possibly accept and believe these cases. But in my opinion, there are good reasons to believe that consciousness can be considered a separate entity from material reality. In fact, some leading scientists in the past, such as the father of quantum theory, Max Planck, have said that they viewed consciousness as the foundation from which matter arises. Therefore, in this case, consciousness doesn’t necessarily depend on a physical brain to exist, and can continue to live after the physical brain and body have died. In these cases, it seems—at least, at first glance—that a consciousness would attach itself to a new brain and manifest it as a memory of a past life.
NPR: This might be a silly question, but I’ll ask it anyway. Does that mean consciousness needs to reside in a body?
Tucker: Of course, we don’t know for sure. But in the case of James Leininger, I’m talking about the 50-year gap between the two lifetimes. Now, who says he didn’t reside in another body in the meantime? But my guess is no. Maybe a physical body for us to manifest ourselves in this world is necessary now, but it’s also possible our brain is the conduit for consciousness, and the truth is that consciousness was created somewhere else.
NPR: So, what are you trying to reveal or prove? In your opinion, what constitutes significant scientific progress in this field?
Tucker: I don’t know, of course I have to try to prove something, but I’m trying to figure out for myself what seems to be going on here. And I think these cases contribute a lot of evidence that consciousness, at least in some cases, can exist after the death of the body, that life after death isn’t just an illusion or something considered based on faith, but we can also approach the issue by analyzing and evaluating this perspective based on its values.
NPR: Clearly, you’ve been interested in this topic for a long time, and that’s what motivates your work. But I wonder, after years of examining countless cases, how much has your understanding of the afterlife and what happens after death increased? Ultimately, has that changed for you at all?
Tucker: I’ve certainly become convinced that there’s more to it than just pure physical reality. I think that, perhaps, if we survive, there isn’t just one experience that each of us has, and the afterlife might be as diverse as life in this world.
Dr. Jim B. Tucker is currently a professor of neurobehavioral science and psychiatry and director of the Division of Perceptual Studies (DOPS) at the University of Virginia in the United States.
DOPS brings together researchers studying near-death experiences, ghosts, pre-death visions, and other related topics concerning human consciousness. At DOPS, Dr. Jim’s work continues the work of his predecessor, Ian Stevenson, researching children who are reported to have memories of past lives. Dr. Jim is the author of several books that have been translated into more than 20 languages worldwide: Return to Life: Extraordinary Cases of Children Who Remember Past Lives, Life Before Life , and Before: Children’s Memories of Previous Lives, which is a combined version of the two above.
James Leininger’s incredible story was documented in the book *Soul Survivor: The Reincarnation of a World War II Fighter Pilot*, published in 2009. The book was written by James Leininger’s parents, Bruce Leininger and Andrea Leininger, along with professional writer Ken Gross.
